My day is piling up with the synchronicities. I have been having a tough few days, maybe – arguably – a tough few weeks. I want everyone who reads this to understand though, that this is quite possibly more than just astro-vanity, it is quite possibly insightful.
I have spent some time looking at this intriguing diagram which describes something powerful and rather symmetrically beautiful about the orbits of Orcus and Pluto. For those who are not yet aware, Orcus is a planet, technically in contemporary parlance a plutoid, it is somewhat smaller than Pluto, but its orbital period is identical to Pluto (248 years) and it follows a near identical path around the ecliptic, though offset, it was discovered 74 years to the day after Pluto was discovered and it was named by those astrologically-phobic astronomers Orcus after the Roman name for Pluto, who was later known as Dis Pater. Inevitably it ought to have something to do with Pluto. There are several theories about this and I shall quote them to save you trawling about:
Philip Sedgewick proposes: “that this planet can symbolize “a person of one’s word, [one who] challenges broken promises, is aligned with a spiritual creed, [and is] accountable for personal thought, word and deed.” On the more difficult side, he suggests, “hypocritical, fault finding in the ways of others, blame assigning, ducks responsibility for word and actions, unable to keep promises.”
Francesco Sciavinotto suggests that this planet is involved in the fight for survival. I would add that there is a feeling of the ethics that one would apply or adopt when faced with such a fight, and the psychological and emotional steps toward getting there .”
So, just what the world needs, actually just what I need with an excess of Scorpio, more life and death stuff. But I wasn’t worried, even though I have been feeling strangely compelled to look at Orcus more seriously; it has been striking me quite forcefully of late that I ought to find out more about this subject.
Bear with me.
So next I read about Orcus on the excellent Karmastrology: but it is not helping me because as the author says: “I’ve been following Orcus in the charts of my clients for over a year now, and it’s not altogether obvious what’s going on either by natal position or by transit. Orcus is holding tight onto his secret. So far, the most significant observation I have is that there is no dramatic observation to be made as yet. This is particularly true with transits involving Orcus. They’re pretty quiet, at least amongst the people I’m seeing.“
Now, you know the rule that says if you want to understand a planetary energy, wait till it contacts Jupiter in your astrology and you’re away; well I was looking at the placement of Orcus in the heavens right now, and guess what? Obviously in exact conjunction with my Jupiter.
This has been enlightening and dispiriting in equal measure: Orcus is NOT easy.
I am trying to keep myself centred and I am consoling myself with the knowledge that at least I am getting a feel for Orcus, at first-hand, but it is not fun.
Let’s see where this goes as we put Orcus under the microscope.
BUT, all that aside, Orcus is feeling pretty intense to me right now, am I the only one? Did I get it wrong? It’s not my wisdom, the Jupiter transit trick is tried and tested right?
Well, hrmm. Not yet. It forms a ASC/DSC sextile/trine and it’s not really opposite anything at the moment. It won’t reach my Jupiter (3Vir54) for a bit yet. Personally, I’ve been thinking it was all TNeptune square Sun (and TSaturn conjunct Jupiter) but maybe not…
but what I am realising is that I have never dealt with it all, not really.
Crying is fine, but please no imploding. Dealing with it is difficult but good, rather like a giant splinter out of your leg or something.
max
[‘The downside is that you always get to deal with it to some extent, but you can turn it into real muscle.’]
I just bought your Orcus book. Im wondering if I’m the potential client who’s chart demonstrates the dramatic observations you speak of.. My life has had been a series of destructive events since 2008. Pluto is the sole distributor of my chart. Ive got Mars, Pluto, Saturn in Scorpio, 3rd house. I’m a Leo rising and Orcus sits in my 12th house… It started out small with a divorce. Since then, with every positive aspect in life I’ve had major events that took away any amount of happiness. All accompanied by revelations. The closer to the Pluto, saturn Mars conjunction, the more devastating consequences. For me to have a revelation, it became to come via death of those closest; some by murder, trials, first class to low, house burnt down, car exploded, only child raped, robbed by family financially, you name it. Im living the yin and yang like groundhogs day in every aspect of life. Basically hell, but I’m still alive. I’m still seeing hard aspects and choices, but I NEED a better understanding to stop or lessen this madness. How much for a detailed enterpretation? The online computer generated ones only go so far. Your book and posts have made the most sense. Your interpretations translate the history of my life on some of my hard aspects. Thank you for your book and insightful blog! If you ever have time, please email me for a chart interpretation.
Very brave of you to comment Max 🙂
Saturn transiting your Jupiter ought to magnify all of those lovely Saturn in Virgo feelings right? How’s the new fitness regime going? 🙂
And you are *so* right about the splinter!
I didn’t realize you kept something of a daily blog, but happy to discover that fact. So looking at my natal Pholus, it’s 4 degrees past my Jupiter in late Capricorn (Second House). And that means that I’ve been having a transit of Jupiter over Pholus (and Jupiter over Jupiter) of late.
So what’s happening in my life lately? Yeah, a lot of pain. My mother, beloved, passed away 10 days ago at 93, and now, as of Tuesday, we’ve finshed up with her last ceremonies, and the last of far-flung family left for their homes yesterday. I lived with my mother and was her carer/caregiver these last 6 and a half years. Quite a journey!
I should say that my life is not free of mommy-type conflictions (but not afflictions) and I’m at a loss(?) of what sort of impression to subscribe to when I hear of your experience with your mother, Jeremy. But curious and solicitous am I, of your suffering in that regard.
Before deciding to take care of my mom full time I was a world wanderer/free and independent spirit of sorts. Big change. Now I’m to be free again, but as of yet I am feeling anything but free of the emotional debris of all this. I really appreciated what you’ve said about the way the world views our exercise of actual compassion. Spoke to me directly.
And add to your synchronicity [and mine] that:
well I was looking at the placement of Orcus in the heavens right now, and guess what? Yep, smack at a conjunction with my Jupiter.__ . . .
while my [John’s] Jupiter is conjuncting my Pholus, and I discover Chirotic Journal . . . Hmmmm!
Very brave of you to comment Max
It is?
Saturn transiting your Jupiter ought to magnify all of those lovely Saturn in Virgo feelings right? How’s the new fitness regime going?
I’ve been on the lifetime fitness routine. I’m getting the bureaucracy.
max
[‘Blah.’]
I have never commented on any such website before, but I am compelled to do so after reading your post, Max. I was struggling (mentally) to help my son resolve old problems haunting him. Caught up in finding a solution, I cast a chart for that moment. The problem revolves around his father – and the utter turmoil the man has inflicted on my son’s(our) life. The chart was auspicious – and lo and behold – Orcus is conjunct my house of partners (7th): The problems ALL revolve upon the fact the father (my partner) has NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) – big time.
Thats very interesting, I dont know if its at all similar but I have Orcus in Scorpio. My father also has NPD and have been dealing with issues over it.
NPD = Asperger’s?
I had a work offer, just when ascendant conjuncrs my Orcus… an insurance comercial job :P, they said to me that formation courses where paid, but at the end of the morning… a lot of excuses broke this promise, i feel that something was wrong personally with me, maybe a so cualified profile. I feel a little scammed, and forced to continue to waste my time by free…
At 18:00 ascendent conjunts my fortunae pars, and i received a paid offer in a communication agency…! not so much, but at least, they pay my time…: and only for univertitary people..::D:D:D
At the same time my first “employer” interupt this call… ( may she did feel my energy going out of her control…?)i feel better… having an economic excuse for going away… Thanks for your report… I should wacht to this Orcus more near.:D
how about Orcus, being like a cleaner sweeper at a deeper level, one that takes you from the personal to the collective.As Pluto transits a planet, Orcus is transiting something it aspects
Hi Jeremy – This Orcus is interesting, especially as it relates to broken promises (and sobbing/exploding).
On the day our new neighbors moved in, the Sun conjoined Orcus in my 12th (within 2 degrees of natal Pluto) and both formed a tight square with my natal 9th house Mars – Mars and Pluto rule my 3rd. Adding to the fun is transiting Pluto, traveling back and forth through my 4th, recently in opposition to natal Orcus – when Pluto turns direct, there’s probably more to come on that front!
Although we’ve held to our original tenancy agreement, our new neighbors and landlord have not. Our ongoing frustration over the deception, disrespect and disregard relating to our living arrangement has caused reactions not always in keeping with my own spiritual creed – after numerous attempts at friendly diplomacy failed, I got pissed, to say the least and took the bait. And although we’ve continued to honor the original terms of our agreement (and continue to be respectful neighbors), I’ve found it VERY difficult to “LOVE” my neighbor and maintain/re-balance my center.
Practical considerations make moving a less than desirable option, so the situation has presented me with a huge spiritual challenge. I relate to the feelings you describe of falling apart – this definitely feels like a huge “test”, one where I’m forced to walk the talk in spite of challenging external circumstances.
Now that transiting Neptune (soon to oppose T. Orcus) is about to join the mix, I can only imagine . . . 🙂
I should mention that I found this post through a link provided on “Astrology Thoughts”.
This is a follow-up to my last comment. After realizing I had a strong Kassandra theme going on lately, I remembered your post on the subject and re-read it. Unfortunately, it still fits! How this relates to my Orcus comment is that I only now noticed my natal Orcus is also opposite natal Kassandra in Capricorn/4th house – by less than 1 degree. Transiting Pluto (ruler of my 3rd), as well as my progressed Moon, have recently conjoined natal Kassandra so it’s been quite the gathering – especially since everything opposes natal Orcus.
While I don’t for a minute question the validity of what I’ve been observing (Kassandra exactly sextiles Mercury in Scorpio on the cusp of the 2nd/3rd and trines Pluto in the 12th), the one person who has any real authority to remedy the situation has failed to take my insights seriously. Instead, as I mentioned in my previous comment, there’s been a lot of lying and denying, over which I have no power.
And naturally, any effort I make to remedy the situation becomes more about me – so now I keep my insights to myself, refusing to feed the beast. It’s become an exercise in humility as the situation continues to offer me the opportunity to find my spiritual center without relying on validation or support from outside. Thankfully, my husband (whose Scorpio Sun sextiles my Kassandra) has been very supportive. It’s not been easy, but at least we’re in this together.
I share this stuff not because my life is so interesting, but because I find the astrological connections endlessly fascinating. The way the specific myths associated with these asteroids play out in real-life never ceases to amaze me. Thanks for bringing them to us.
The “test” I mentioned in my previous comment definitely relates to Pluto, since recent transits directly involve my natal Pluto/Mars square. Plus, right when all this started, transiting Pluto was trine my natal Pluto and loosely quincunx natal Mars.
I think karenbeth47 may be onto something.
Intriguing post!
Correction, the link was on Astropost. 🙂
when tr pluto was exact on my asc. 3 Cap, tr orcus was exact on natal pluto… Parental Alienation Syndrome became factual…
210558; 23.15 Amsterdam.
life is hilarious… ‘the opposite of love isn’nt hatred; it’s indifference…’
I still can’t figure out if Orcus is good or bad.Supposedly it operates a bit like Pluto? Well I like those Scorpionic energies so that is fine with me.I have it conjunct my Sun/Venus alongside BM Lilith so it must operate strongly in my psychology.I don’t know much about it,only hearing about it recently.Something about ‘keeping oaths’? that sounds rather vague.Would like to get some general info on it,can’t find much on the internet.Are you writing a book on the subject? I’ll have to check it out!
Does Jupiter transiting conjunct natal Orcus have the same effect?
Ugh. I have natal Mars and Venus at Cancer 17’46” and 17’47” respectively. In my 7th house. As well as Orcus at roughly Cancer 14’02”. How does one transform this or work with this? Maybe it’s not as bad as I am thinking?
i am seeing that orcus is transiting my natal sun, and jupiter is transiting my natal orcus. i find that i can barely function, only doing the most basic things. luckily i only work 20 hours a week, but even that seems burdensome. i’m 45 years old now, and orcus will continue on to transit jupiter soon and a difficult stellium incl. mercury, venus and pluto for the next 25 years. I’m seeing a pattern of dark relationships i had with the contact orcus had with mars from 1986-2003 There was a savior quality tied with scathing loss. The Karmastrology writer went on to say that Orcus may bring forth spiritual wealth. I found that even though I may have gone through difficult relationships, they had a very soulful rich quality, that formed dark bridges to my future, and i couldn’t have gone forward without them (having had such an emotionally bereft childhood- I could no longer stand being alone in the world). This site has great graphics of orbits and interrelationship with neptune, pluto, the galactic center and “gate of god” opening which the mayans predicted : http://www.lunarplanner.com/asteroids-dwarfplanets/Orcus-Pluto.html
I have only recently looked at Orcus when I found it was conjunct my daughters Ascendant, square her Sun. It squares my Uranus which rules my 5th, and square my Mercury and Moon. It is conjunct my Venus which is otherwise unaspected. Our synastry is not beneficial at all.
She has been having building a case against me for many years, bringing it up when she was 21, which I thought we sorted back then, and she is now 43. I am apparently critical and judgmental of her yet from my experience this is TOTALLY untrue. She never gave reason to be critical, although an Aries, all one sees is the four planets in Taurus, a gentle, soft and unobtrusive woman. I actually had her on a pedestal most of her life, then Niobe, ‘Humbling lessons through excess pride in one’s children’, saw her tumble off the pedestal. The worst of that experience was my sense of failure as a mother.
She told me ten years ago when I was unaware of any problems “Haven’t you worked it out yet. I never listen to a word you say”, which crushed me, Chiron in 3rd, and since then I actually say little and see her rarely, seems by the choice of both. I searched for why and put it all down to her Saturn squaring my Mars – I could not win and gave up trying.
I have a past life story, given to me in a dream, after weeks of asking spirit for insight. We were children, I was 8, she 12, my impulsive recklessness of going to rescue a cat at a time when our father had warned us to stay hidden, and she coming to ‘save’ me as the responsible elder sister, saw her raped by 3 men who then burnt our home with our parents inside. I woke knowing she had never forgiven me, lumping all events against me….
Anyway early March she seems to have let her thoughts of my so called attitude toward her, my criticism and judgment, blow out of all proportion and she had gone about filling the rest of the family’s heads with how horrid I am toward her, until my entire family turned on me quite viscously. She has always been ‘the perfect one’ loved by all, while I am a recognised eccentric rebel. I don’t get it, I rarely see her or have contact except at family gatherings with others present and yet all the family say they have not experienced my criticism or judgment but she has so ‘the perfect one’ is right. At this time Orcus was conjunct her Moon at 4 Virgo.
I wonder did Orcus give her the ‘power to influence others’ and is Orcus about harboring revenge
Sedgwick proposes that this planet can symbolize ‘On the more difficult side, “hypocritical, fault finding in the ways of others, blame assigning’
According to Chryss Alexander, audacity, boldness, “seizing the day,” questioning or challenging, dissent, predatory, ravaging, corruption, a fallen state, heavy or strong retaliation.
Hope this gives you something to ponder in regard to Orcus
Thanks for that site ani. I can relate. Orcus is retrograding within 1 degree of my natal sun and Jupiter is about to conjunct my natal Orcus. Crap. I have been “sick” with anemia and chronic fatigue since at least August 2012, and thought I was getting better, but had a setback in January. I have not been outside since then. I can relate to the barely functioning thing. I am a prisoner in my bed/apartment [although getting better slowly]. Oh and I turn 50 later this year. So Chiron return and all that jazz. I like the part about “spiritual wealth” and it seems to be the silver lining in the cloud that I am holding onto. Otherwise, I can’t reconcile it.
I found another blog recently while been studying plutinos, royal stars and asteroids. The author’s take on the bodies I am more familiar with really seem on pointe, so I’m inclined to give (her?) views on these less familiar bodies a little more regard than some of the opinions I read. Anyway, I found her insights on Orcus to be very interesting! As I was reading through the comments, I was compelled to dig up one of the articles on that site and re-read the comments with her take on it in mind.
“What has happened, what we’ve done or not done is the Orcus part. How we feel – and indeed whether we feel, whether we are willing to deal with our reality? That’s the Neptune part.” (Since all plutinos are essentially flavored with Neptune via the gravitational pull, the author believes that Neptune should be considered when working out what the plutino in question is signifying – me)
You can read the whole thing for yourself here: http://astroppm.blogspot.com/2013/12/orcus-at-6-virgo-our-possible-price.html
The article is a few years old but Orcus is once again at 6º Virgo so at least part of what she says regarding placement is relevant.
By the way, I have no idea if the author is male or female. For whatever reason, it seems to be a woman speaking when i read it. Not that it matters! I just didn’t want to confuse anyone with my references using the female pronouns. xoxo
I had a direct conjunction of Orcus over my Sun in Virgo a few years ago, and it timed directly with a feeling of someone watching me from above, a sort of spirit/angel/god sense. I was married at the time in a very unhappy relationship (for me) that went on over 24 years. There were emotional abuse issues, and I was getting physically sicker and sicker. It was not long after that I was given the opportunity to escape that relationship, which I did with a move that I thought was to help someone else, but it ended up helping me most of all as I realized some of my illnesses started to improve, and I gained the strength to file for divorce.
So for me, Orcus has played the role of liberator, helper, healer.
I pay strong attention to Orcus transits through my chart now!
That’s very interesting. I’d say that Orcus can often give us a never-say-die attitude and evokes a refusal to give up, no matter the odds. He is relentless after all. Looks like you used that energy to your advantage.
Hi. I just noticed Orcus in odom’s chart. Take a look
my natal orcus is 1 degree leo in the 8th house
square my sun (26 libra 11th house) and Sedna (5 Taurus 5th house)
What does this mean?
I was wondering what would your insight in Orcus in 7th house in Cancer. My 7th house is in part of Cancer and part of Leo. I have tons of others fixed stars and asteroids in my 7th house none of the usual personal or generational planets though. I’m 44 and no partner in sight. I’d not like to marry anyone but having a committed relationship with another woman would be ideal. I had only one of those for 6 years that ended before I turned 30. I had before that one a relationship for 6 months and afterwards in 2006 another one for 6 months. Besides that my love life is dryer than the dessert with small puddles here and there. Is Orcus to blame of this? Because I’ll need a word if he is! 😀
I am just looking up orcus for the first time, and it’s at Virgo 10° which is precisely where my Jupiter is. I’m Pisces rising so it’s my seventh house. So now that you’ve had a few years to reflect how it affected your Jupiter can you update us? Thank you very much!
Indeed I can! I wrote an entire book about the experience: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Orcus-Jeremy-Neal/dp/0957369603/
I have been intrigued by the meaning of Orcus. It is natally at 1.30 Leo 12th house and it seems to make a conjunction with natal Vesta at 1.44 Leo 12th house, post natal Lunar eclipse 0.16 Leo 12th house and all of them are in conjunction to rising sign at 5,48 Leo.
Your comment “I’d say that Orcus can often give us a never-say-die attitude and evokes a refusal to give up, no matter the odds. He is relentless after all. Looks like you used that energy to your advantage.” would resonate with people commenting on how they see me. I am also always having this feeling of fight for survival and for me promises are promises to honour. Ethics are also important. I do not agree with “the end justifies the means”.
If I add Vesta and my dedication and to something to focus, it is true that when I am focused on something that it is worth it I would keep going and work hard no matters the odds.
What puzzle me is how I should understand Orcus with post natal Lunar eclipse 0.16 Leo 12th and ascendent, would you have any suggestion ?
Yes, that is an interesting arrangement, much will depend on the placement of your Sun. It presages some hidden difficulty with father and perhaps his other children.
If you want to understand Orcus better, then there is a book worth reading!
Hi chirotic, are you familiar with the magi? It’s through looking at my heliocentric chart, because of magi astrology, I notice I have a yod with a mystics triangle involving my sun/moon, Jupiter, mars and Orcus. Not only that but it’s all exact – all at 18•, I would be happy to help you understand Orcus if you want to do a case study. I would be fascinated to know what it means as well of course 🙂