Today I want to discuss a couple of invisibles. Each has bearing upon the other and they’re inseparable.
First of all, there’s the great blind spot of human (un)consciousness: subjectivity. This is almost impossible to fathom, not least because its frequency is considerably higher than reason. It’s the great conundrum of science and the reasoning mindset that it cannot attune to states of being that are in excess of itself. So science cannot get to grips with love – whether personal or altruistic – except to say something banal and senseless about chemical activity in the brain. The only evidence that can be made in support of love is anecdotal; circumstantial even. The reasoning mind cannot say anything insightful about it at all. Philosophers and great thinkers throughout time have attempted to tackle these thorny subjects. Unfortunately, when Descartes concluded that ‘I think therefore I am’ he committed an act of genocide on higher states of consciousness for all future generations. Consciousness was a done deal; and for every person born since, operating at a sufficiently low frequency (that of reason or below: 99% of all earth’s denizens therefore) there was no need to think any more about it. Hence many of us find ourselves in this strange world that denies our entire experience of life while at the same time it fails to explain it. We are then condemned to spend our lives acting ‘normal’. (And acting normal is, like anything else, easier the more you do it; so that’s okay.)
But subjectivity is a vast fact of human life that due to its intrinsic quality, is invisible to ourselves. Sometimes it’s more visible to others, usually when their frequency (I’m sorry to use that word, it’s very new-age and I don’t like it, but it’s close enough that it’s useful) is higher than ours. And that person probably feels a little compassion when they see it, or maybe they know to cross the road when they see it. (In the opposite direction of course, the person with low consciousness sees high consciousness concerns as ridiculous, stupid.)
But whatever your level of consciousness, subjectivity is a blind spot. Unless you’re a great enlightened one that is. Maybe if we could get into the inner workings of subjectivity we could get around it somehow; nullify it, or at least ameliorate its worst effects, but even understanding it is nigh on impossible because it gets into the great mystery of the human condition, and such explorations have defeated the greatest minds in human history. The ones that weren’t astrologers at least.
Astrology gives us a glimpse into the secret heart of our own subjectivity. In fact, as we all know – those of us who haven’t reasoned the study of the stars into nonsense that is, (in pretty much every case forgoing actual study of course) – astrology can be a weapon if wielded by a clumsy hand. It’s possible to lay bare the unconscious soul to the shock and detriment of the consciousness within. We have all of us, in our serious study, been subject to painful revelation, that with unerring accuracy lays bare our raw and unhappy weakness. Our ‘fatal flaw’. This kind of subjectivity is one that we become increasingly aware and respectful of, as we study the workings of our own incarnation and struggle to become acquainted with our true selves. It brings us to greater and lesser certainty. We are more grounded. We are less pushy. We understand that opinion is our own via dolorosa, and we try to forge a new path. We grow in this way, and become acquainted with who we are.
The alternative is difficult, but as roads go, it’s positively thronged. The countless multitude asleep to their astrology, and blind to themselves. The great map of (un)consciousness that is the nativity remains unexplored. Each well-worn aspect remains to one extent or another, something between a preference and a compulsion. Always unquestioned. It’s difficult to explain this too, because it’s so very fundamental and intrinsic and innate. For most people it’s as invisible as breathing. We rarely get the inclination to relate to our respiration. The same is true of our astrology, our preference or compulsion. Perhaps, like breathing, we only get very focused on it when we’re drowning. In adversity we are introduced to ourselves after all.
Perhaps an example will help.
Take the case of the greatest and most difficult of all compulsions / preferences. The Saturn Pluto conjunction. Here we introduce the second great invisible: Pluto. To see how this operates, understand that we’re usually quite conscious of aspects to the Sun because they represent our ideal way of being. We get a hit from them. People who embody them become our role models. But Pluto works the other way; they represent our most repressed way of being. We get a sense of anxiety from them. People who embody them become our enfants terrible. So when Pluto combines with another planet, he hides that planet’s influence from ourselves. He makes that paradigm into a blind spot. And since, aside from Pluto and his Hadean counterparts (Orcus, Ixion) there’s no more inflexible, tricky energy to work with than Saturn, the combination is especially challenging. Furthermore, because there’s no aspect that even comes close to the conjunction in terms of strength and reach, it’s little wonder that Saturn conjunct Pluto has always been known as old ‘hard labour’ by those in the know.
But what is ‘hard labour’ when it’s in our blind spot? It’s not hard for us because we don’t see it. In fact, it’s simply unquestioned. It has several manifestations of course, but usually, and most apparently it comes across as judgement. For anyone born in the early part of 1947, ( but to a lesser extent from late 46 to late 47, in Leo) or the later part of 1982 ( and again less intensely from early 1981 to early 83, in Libra), this is their great life challenge.
I grew up in close proximity to some of these energies, so I’ve always found them challenging. And I grew up too carrying the antithetic superpower of Uranus conjunct Pluto in Virgo, so Saturn-Pluto has always been my kryptonite – and vice versa of course. But that awareness has grown into a fine sensitivity. I can spot 1947 a mile off. I have to say, I’m getting to be able to spot 1982 from at least half a mile now that they’ve gone through their first Saturn return too. It’s a really tricky energy. I’m not going to judge it, God forbid, it is what it is. But I do reserve the right to cross the road when I see it coming. Which isn’t to say that it cannot be wonderful. Indeed, 1947 is usually a very strong character and you can think them very fine – provided you’re on the right side of them!
But what happens with Saturn – Pluto is that it judges. It doesn’t start that way, but it usually takes a position which it considers to be inviolate. It can take many forms but (unsurprisingly) it’s a Saturn position. So it’s always, in some sense of the word, status orientated, usually that’s coloured by its sign and house position and the influence of other aspects. In Leo, a proud, theatrical and highly religious sign (yes, few signs are as religious as Leo) it might take a position as high status in the arts. It might get onto the high ground through church membership. It might get up onto the stage and put on a show. It might take a leadership position. It’s important to remember that astrology is expressed through consciousness; so if the consciousness is low, you’re likely to have a religious zealot, looking down their nose at morally inferior types. Or a great artist whose rarefied talents set them above the plebeians. Or a self-proclaimed leader, blithely taking charge of those better qualified and more experienced.
In Libra, there is usually a tendency toward intellectual judgement. At worst, other people are deluded ‘idiots’ who clearly have no clue about how the world works. They’re muddle headed, fatuous and weak minded. The competitiveness of Libra in the air element (that repressed Arien polarity) is always a strong feature of the Libra typology.
If the consciousness is high then things are less likely to be catastrophic, but in some area of life, the Saturn – Pluto conjunction always makes hard work to one extent or another, and that hardship is always self-inflicted.
Why should this be? The problem is that the tendency to judgement is so innate that it’s intrinsically unquestionable. To the bearer of this particular cross it’s as obvious as the sun in the sky, so how can it be anything other than correct? What the aspect fails to appreciate is that the worldview it has created is not the result of inviolate natural laws. Their platform of judgement is not infallible. Indeed, they were simply born with a burgeoning need to judge, but cannot see it as anything other than common sense so they do not even realise they are sitting in judgement.
Underneath the tendency to judgement lies a huge and compulsive insecurity. Remember that Pluto imbues any point it touches with anxiety. So if Pluto relates to Saturn in Leo, then the great fear is that the person is not loved (in Leo) and more broadly not respected. Saturn is a harsh critic at the best of times after all, but when he is hidden from oneself, there is a great unconscious reaction. And the major problem here is that this high level of respect is unconsciously craved, demanded even, without – very often – having been earned. The interpersonal feedback that Saturn – Pluto gets causes a short circuit. They get treated just like anybody else, not necessarily disrespected, but certainly not with the automatic deference the aspect secretly craves. So the ego goes into overdrive building a platform from which to be superior. Then, because for reason x.y or z they are in fact superior to most everyone, they can meet such indifference with the cool repose, or even contempt, it deserves.
This of course is just one example, and a bad case in prospect. The pity of this collusion between subjectivity and Plutonic compulsion is that it becomes impossible to forge the authentic self in the context of such mindlessness. And while we have focused here on the sole example of the Saturn – Pluto conjunction, the same principle operates in the presence of any contact between these planets, since as we know: all aspects are squares!
Furthermore, the two great invisibles have this effect on any planet that is contacted by Pluto. With Venus it is the need to be approved of that becomes invisible. With the Sun, the need to be admired. Coming to awareness of these hidden anxieties is painful and difficult. Some people will go to great lengths to avoid waking up to them. In such short term blissful ignorance lies long-term tragedy. Imagine living a whole life having done no work! And yet that is what the majority of us do, in order to preserve our dearest and most cherished compulsions.
More soon.
As usual, great writing here Jeremy. Love the way you cut to the chase in your articles. I’ve always wondered if a transiting planet – in this case a transiting saturn conjunct a natal pluto – has exactly the same dynamic as transiting pluto conjunct a natal saturn? Not taking into account the house in which the conjunction falls, of course. In other words, do inverse aspects hold within them the same revelatory potential? Hope I’ve managed to formulate my question clearly.
Thanks Sean. To answer your question, a slower moving transit is just heavier. So in the example you cite, Pluto transiting conjunct Saturn would be a bigger deal than the reverse, but the principles would be very much the same in tone.
The other difference lies in the fact of house position, which you anticipate, but all things being equal, the style, if not the depth of the event, is similar.
Thanks Jeremy. My interest in astrology is beginning to pass from the purely esoteric to the practical. Fascinating. The functioning of the chart wheel calls to mind a multitude of big and tiny watchmakers cogs all moving in unison. Even minuscule movements can have major impacts.
I read this article with interest as I have a Pluto-Saturn square. I do think it makes a distinct difference in a personality but I am yet to fully understand it. Definitely I feel it is an aspect that can drive people to their limits and often people decide to take their own lives rather than suffer it, especially when young (Amy Winehouse as an example). I think it is better carried in maturity as it is a real burden, heavy somehow and can take people down unless they find tools to manage it. Interestingly, I have found myself involved with both astrology and psychoanalysis and with the latter have committed myself to a long and arduous process of getting to know my own ‘self’. It is not an easy road, but I feel having the square gives me the strength to survive the re-experience of trauma that has affected my identity at a very deep and primitive level, and to make use of it. Interestingly my analyst also has the conjunction, born in 1947 so I actually feel in safe hands knowing he has had the capacity to deal with this energy himself. So rather than mindlessness towards the self, there is in contrast a great respect for it and the powerful desire to make the invisible visible through painstaking and painful work. The rewards, I believe, of solving this aspect can be very great, but it takes – key word – commitment.
Yes, this combination makes a strong character when it is ‘assimilated’. Good luck.
What an interesting piece of writing! So thankful for this. I feel there can never be said enough about Pluto.
This seems like such a “politician’s” aspect to me. And I have a feeling, we’ll be seeing a few pretty intense public persons with the Libra conjunction making their way to the top soon enough! Someone possessing that whole elite intellectual aura and may even come from the far left politically speaking. At least it’s what I sense many in my generation are craving, and could eventually manifest their spokesperson when the time is right.
I’m not sure what political atmosphere is like in the U.K., but in the U.S. there is an already such a strong divide between right and left. It looks like we are heading towards an even greater extreme of “Christian Anti-Abortionist” vs “Atheist Pinky Socialist”. And we’ll probably see at least a few Saturn conjunct Pluto in Libra in that battlefield, on either side…
Yes indeed, let’s not forget that a great many of the movers and shakers in American politics were born during the last Saturn-Pluto conjunction. Bill Clinton 1946, Al Gore 1947, Hilary Clinton 1947, George Bush 1946; even Arnold Schwarzenegger, until recently governor of California 1947. The list is massive and it’s not a coincidence. So yes, expect the power-mongers to be drawn from Pluto in Leo and Pluto in Libra primarily, especially during the Saturn – Pluto years.
Lovely to have something new by you to read Now to read it…………
Hi Angie.
Amazing, timely, thought provoking and as Angue said “lovely” to have something new by you to read! Thank you.
Zack, I can certainly relate to that! I have unaspected Saturn in Scorpio on the cusp of the 5th house (I refer to him as my lovely Satan :D). All the symptoms Jeremy described are pretty applicable – there is a deep need to be respected and loved, made worse by the acute sense of dissatisfaction with the self, toppled with gripping anxiety.
The anxiety is insane and almost primal. It’s always there. I think it has caused me to chronically alienate people and create some pretty intense defense mechanisms regarding my self-expression.
Though this Saturn is very harsh, I think the difference between the conjunction people, is that I try my best not to practice it on others. I just crawl into my cave instead – turning inward. There are grumpy spill overs on my part, but generally I try to contain it so it doesn’t beam its rays onto others. Would you say the same about your Saturn in Scorpio?
Thanks Michelle 🙂
Do you feel the same dynamic is in effect for those with Saturn in Scorpio (ie, a Saturn ‘underwritten’ by Pluto)? The unconscious demanding of respect and resulting anxiety when that is not easily or immediately granted?
With Pluto in Scorpio as sole dispositor of my chart, life itself can feel like it’s run by unconscious anxiety. The only way out seems to be to continually let go, when Pluto wants to grip. Hardly a moment’s rest…
Ooops! I apologize! Replied to the wrong person! (please delete?)
Zack, I can certainly relate to that! I have unaspected Saturn in Scorpio on the cusp of the 5th house (I refer to him as my lovely Satan :D). All the symptoms Jeremy described are pretty applicable – there is a deep need to be respected and loved, made worse by the acute sense of dissatisfaction with the self, toppled with gripping anxiety.
The anxiety is insane and almost primal. It’s always there. I think it has caused me to chronically alienate people and create some pretty intense defense mechanisms regarding my self-expression.
Though this Saturn is very harsh, I think the difference between the conjunction people, is that I try my best not to practice it on others. I just crawl into my cave instead – turning inward. There are grumpy spill overs on my part, but generally I try to contain it so it doesn’t beam its rays onto others. Would you say the same about your Saturn in Scorpio?
I thought about this for a while. Yeah, it’s not much fun. Nobody will ever take your ego seriously enough for it to be satisfied, though, or give it enough attention. So what then is the point of needing any? But even with awareness the compulsions keep spilling out from the shadows.
I find it best to question any ‘conclusion’ I come to. I can give off a distinct air of judgment when angry, without saying a word, and often when I have then come forth with some sort of pronouncement based more in anger and unease than in actual discernment, someone has dropped a tiny detail or two that lays it bare as aggressive and harsh even if hitting at something in its limited way. Every situation has nuance and gray; I may feel I know a situation, have some wide absorption of its dynamics, but any judgment or conclusion is bound to be in error, an attempt to cull expressible form from the pervasive saturation of subjectivity. The only conclusions I trust in myself are when to remove myself from situations, and as time goes on, that is progressively most of them.
It’s hard to judge people when you are into the study of astrology, but like Jeremy said, you can still cross the road. Now if only there was a book to hand people before doing that 😉
Hi Zack, as you’ll see I made a post out of your question. Hope all is well.
Thanks. I had this post left open for a day and hadn’t seen that before I replied, but it thrilled me when I noticed.
Tonight I’m finding, again, as I try to fall asleep in the basement of my workplace, that sometimes, just sometimes (most likely caused by having dinner with a long-time friend with Venus to within minutes of my Pluto), there is no anxiety but instead total, utter depression. Tomorrow, as they say, is a new day.
More and more each day I appreciate more fully how inseparable Pluto’s process is from Orcus’s. Having them in a square, from Scorpio to Leo respectively, might help; it forces the inextricably linked exchange. So thanks for all your work on bringing Orcus to light, Jeremy, otherwise I probably would have ended up with some other frame of reference not quite as immediate and relevant.
When I said “Hardly a moment’s rest” that may be true of the times when Pluto’s seeping influence has suffused my subjectivity and cast its vote for being the only reality I’ll ever experience, but it was and is far from true in the full context of my life, because Orcus grants a place of infinite rest. After each Plutonic passageway the Orcan plains are where I’m near rhythmically deposited, and it’s a space of utter silence and respite. Cold comfort at first maybe, especially with Pluto’s lingering effects beckoning back to other-focused mania, but in reality an incomparable gift.
The Orcan process seems to me to be erosion in the face of the infinite. Coming back to that place of rest, repeatedly, over and then over again, and with Orcus in Leo, learning to fill the expanse with love. Hopefully in time the Orcan realm becomes less cold loneliness and more warm peace. For me the only way to actually get there is deep meditation.
Who are you performing for when even the rats have gone home?
Reconciled to myself, I emerge into the world
Bare of all thought, clear love in which
The sun on my doorstep dances to your drum
The ant walking into it is no less than You
– Rumi
Jeremy, I have awaited your return longingly. There are a couple of sites out there that offer good perspective and wisdom however, there are none that exemplify the understanding and mastery of expression that you posess. I am very grateful to you for explaining things in a way that I can understand and for giving information that gets to the core of truth in an attempt to pull us towards a little light and progress. I have Pluto conj. Uranus inthe tenth house in Virgo opposite Saturn in Pisces in the fourth house.Pluto and Uranus are square Venus andMars in Gemeni in the eighth. I am sure you know that this has been torturous to say the least. Through your writing I have come to understand what the implications of this are. While I am still in pain due to this configuration I believe that this knowledge has helped me in my conciousness and through that I am attempting to not let those energies run amok without checking them first as behaviors of the deepest insecurities and resentment. Yours is an exquisite gift, thank you for the beauty of your writing and for your manner of expressing the hard core truth with a great heart of compassion. Nobody does it like you do, not even close.
Goodness, thank you. That’s such a lovely comment and I’m feeling quite good about myself now! I plan to write more soon. I’m hoping to cover some more on Uranus/Pluto conjunct as well, so hopefully that will be interesting for you.Take care and good luck!
Oh my god, I pop in on a whim and TWICE blessed am I to find not one, but TWO new posts! Am so happy to see you writing again, as I have missed your “voice” on the internet <3
"It’s a really tricky energy. I’m not going to judge it, God forbid, it is what it is. But I do reserve the right to cross the road when I see it coming. Which isn’t to say that it cannot be wonderful."
I *completely* echo this sentiment! Anyone who has studied astrology for a long enough length of time and gained any sort of self-awareness with regard to truly understanding how certain energetic dynamics just nonjudgmentally are what they are and sometimes it truly can't be helped that whatever it is doesn't happen to mesh particularly well with our own energy fields. There are certain astrological energy signatures I can't help but give serious side eye to, and while I won't necessarily write someone off based on this alone because I do believe growth comes whenever we can give it the old college try and challenge a bias, you can bet my ears are perked up and I'll be watching and listening for any signs of "Danger, Will Robinson!" But yes, sometimes just crossing the road to avoid is best for *all* involved.
Deeply appreciative that you're back, and as usual, I thank you for sharing your sharing your musings – be well!
Thank you. And yes, you do learn to recognise difficult astrological styles. I do wonder whether or not they are the ones that most jar with one’s own styles though. Of course I am sure that’s correct because otherwise we will be only too comfortable with them, but it’s true too that certain styles are very attractive to us as well, perhaps because of some happy signature we possess.
There is just so much to say about these two. They are so heavy, and if touching the softer planets sometimes truly unbearable.(I have the square to Moon/Saturn and to Venus and on the angles). I did want to share with all the other Pluto in Leos my experience of late concerning a late 12th H Pluto/Jupiter, Sun in Aries in Pluto’s 8th, Mars in Leo’s 5th, Saturn in Sag and back to the Jup/Pluto . This full circle to me speaks volumes about repressed creative expression, and how deeply hurtful that frustration has felt at times. Jeremy notes Pluto in Leo’s anxiety being about love but I wonder if it is also about the angst over that which brings us Joy, the true expression of self – often through something created. .Aren’t these Leonian themes as well? If this is the case – I think the answer is to be your own audience and “Just Do It” – anything. In your basement, by yourself, it doesn’t matter – just start and see what happens. Facing down the fear of failure (or criticism) is the surest way to come to terms with this it seems.The shadow becomes so weak after the light is turned upon it.
Yes, you’re quite correct, but I think love covers it best. In the sense that the adulation of the audience is love. And the admiration of those royal qualities is love too. But you’re quite correct. Anxiety exists around all of those solar and leonine themes.
Thanks Jem – I guess we have a whole lot of baby boomers needing a whole lot of love.
Re: Saturn & Pluto – The song that always tends to float through my head when I contemplate this pairing is Pink Floyd’s “Happiest Days Of Our Lives/Another Brick In The Wall, Pt 2”. One thing I have really come to notice about this duo, via observation of the Saturn/Pluto mutual reception of the last two years, is that it deals with rigidly controlling power structures. I’ve written at length about its geopolitical tie-ins to government corruption, oppressive regimes, and “police states” – it does have a rather totalitarian streak to it and natives with this signature prominent do have to be careful how they use the power vested in them, as ambition can have some very dark hooks.
As to having a radar for certain astrological “vintages”, I have developed quite a nose for what I like to refer to (for obvious reasons) as “Black Hole Suns” – AKA the Pluto in Leos born with Fixed Suns in hard aspect to Pluto.
Yes, it’s sadly true. The reception of Saturn with Pluto these last two years or so has allowed a great deal of consolidation of controlling and authoritarian structures. It’s a good point in the context of the next article of rulership, because each of these planets has been working for the others’ furtherance. I think we see that the world has changed as a result. Saturn – Pluto is insensitive at best and utterly without compassion at worst, cruel even. We see this manifesting through corporate action (a Saturn favourite) and at government level too. There’s little sympathy for the unfortunate, Victorian value systems are resurgent, the undeserving poor, Malthusian economics, the whole ugly mess.
And how will this all change with Saturn moving on to Sag after the last dip into Scorpio and square a compassionate (hopefully) Neptune? I am very curious as am going through a 2 deg Saturn return.
With a subtle, beneath-the-radar Pluto-Saturn trine, coming to recognise the tendency to ignore others’ points of view to the point of cruel disengagement, has been a god-send over recent years. Thanks for your chart reading, Jem. It continues to pay dividends.
Thank you so much for this fantastic post. I came here looking for more information on my family member’s Leo stellium which starts with saturn 29 cancer, then leo sun, pluto, merc rx, and moon. She was born june 1946, so the saturn-pluto conjunct is pretty wide. I’ve been researching for days on this Leo configuration. as she is extremely closed and I thought this leo stellium would indicate otherwise, so this article and your other articles on pluto in leo are extremely informative. I happen to have saturn conjunct pluto in libra, so you definitely taught me something about my own chart that I have never read. Thank you for that too!
Thank you so much for this fantastic post. I came here looking for more information on my family member’s Leo stellium which starts with saturn 29 cancer, then leo sun, pluto, merc rx, and moon. She was born june 1946, so the saturn-pluto conjunct is pretty wide. I’ve been researching for days on this Leo configuration. as she is extremely closed and I thought this leo stellium would indicate otherwise, so this article and your other articles on pluto in leo are extremely informative. I happen to have saturn conjunct pluto in libra, so you definitely taught me something about my own chart that I have never read. Thank you for that too!
Thank you so much for this fantastic post. I came here looking for more information on my family member’s Leo stellium which starts with saturn 29 cancer, then leo sun, pluto, merc rx, and moon. She was born june 1946, so the saturn-pluto conjunct is pretty wide. I’ve been researching for days on this Leo configuration. as she is extremely closed and I thought this leo stellium would indicate otherwise, so this article and your other articles on pluto in leo are extremely informative. I happen to have saturn conjunct pluto in libra, so you definitely taught me something about my own chart that I have never read. Thank you for that too!
P.S. Sorry if this posted more than once
I keep re-reading this article. Of course I do, I have Pluto applying to ASC 7 deg orb square Venus exact and a fused Moon/Saturn. I work very hard at remaining positive, loving self, accepting isolation even though I crave contact/love. There is no undoing the natal chart. The goal and answer to any psycholgical problem showing there is awareness-consciousness, as you have pointed out. Therefore, to my mind the condition of the Sun is critical. So how does one heal the Pluto Problem? Pluto paradoxically governs healing does it not? Awareness is the first step, then what? Astrologically where do we go, or do we?
Thanks so much for this insight. I came searching for information because i wanted to understand more the charts of two family members. Two brothers, who both have a triple conjunction of Pluto, Saturn, Mars in Leo
This explanation of the energy of the Pluto / Saturn conjunction goes a long way towards understanding.
They’re both Scorpio Suns. One of them has this triple conjunction at the apex of a T-square in the 8th house!
Thanks Jeremy. Insightful and to the point. Now what of Saturn in Scorpio, as we are all experiencing right now? Add to that ‘Old Father/Chief Judge’ is passing through the final two degrees of Hades’ Realm (my own being the 11th house, and that’s another story). with Pluto ruling Scorpio (and so not quiet so ‘obvious’ as a Pluto placement, yet hidden in plain view, how do you personally this current transit, given the Plutonian undertones of the current Saturn transit?
A beautiful piece of writing,….I am hiding from myself as I respond. I have the 1947 conjunction of Mars Pluto Saturn, eighth house squared by Mercury, Venus ,and Chiron, eleventh house. I was invisible on so many levels, and definitely have been avoided many times (very hurtful!…I’m just being me! Oh! that’s what you object to?) the inability to let go till it’s sorted or at least understood. This is taken way past the norm for others without these aspects. A tendency to keep quiet, because if you start you cannot stop. A complete inability to rest if not true to self.
I just found your blog and I’m loving it. It’s more in depth into astrology than I sometimes understand, but I always end up falling into the seemingly never ending rabbit hole of trying to understand my chart. As for this article.. THANK YOU! I’m still trying to truly understand it in how it applies to my life, but so far it has been one of the more enlightening posts about the one thing in life that has continued to give me the most angst/fear/depression/worry/pain. I’m not 100% on the real meaning behind all of this yet, but I do feel that these things from my chart are related… maybe someone can help point me in the right direction to better understanding.
I have saturn conjunct pluto in Libra in my 10th house. Both are also conjunct my Midheaven which is also in Libra. My sun is in Gemini in the 6th house which also trines my MC as well as Pluto. My sun is conjunct Mars as well.
I feel this must be the reason that my entire adult life (I’m 32) now I have been searching for a career I LOVE. Something that I feel passionate about. It is a deeper drive and feeling than what I’ve seen from most people. Many want to find this as well, but for me it is such an issue that it has deeply affected my life. Often in a negative way. Working a “normal” job is so draining and depressing to me that I am living with my parents right now trying to figure it all out without having to work a “normal” job. I became something close to clinically depressed when I was working.. crying for hours at night many times a week. When I quit it was like the hugest weight was lifted from my shoulders. I’m still at times very upset that I can’t find a career passion, but I’m no where near as depressed now. I find it frustrating and very difficult that I can’t seem to figure it out though. It’s also hard to explain to anyone because most people I know think I’m just lazy or being petty and that no one “likes their job” so you just have to “suck it up” and do the work. Which I understand where they’re coming from, but I also can’t show anyone how it makes me feel and how it truly affects my life when I just suck it up.
I would love any advice as to where on my chart I might want to look into deeper to maybe help me figure out more about this issue of mine. Any book or blog suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
My best friend also has saturn conjunct pluto in Libra in her 2nd house that I hope to help as well. Her big heartbreak/frustration/issue that she struggles with in the same way that I struggle with career/purpose is love/relationships. I’m not sure how that fits into the 2nd house since I’d think that would fit more with 7th or Venus, but again I’m no expert. Only thing I could think of was that she does have issues with helping people to her detriment with money (taking care of “deadbeat” boyfriends, ect) and she has some self esteem issues, though I often think of 1st house for that.
We both obviously went through our first saturn returns not too long ago which was interesting, but actually less eventful than we both thought it’d be. Of course with our conjunct pluto maybe we just repressed it. LOL
Thank you for anyone that has advice I truly appreciate it. Love this blog and have much to read since I only found it last night. 🙂
Erica – sometimes this angst is experienced with a south node in the 10th House, so if it is there that is definitely something to consider and that is a long conversation. Regardless, since the ruler of your house of vocation is Venus – her condition in the chart is extremely important. She is guiding your career vs your day to day job. Venus wants connection and bonding, rules money and love and values. She is Beauty and aesthetics. In Libra more intellectual than the earth sign Taurus which she also rules. Where is Venus expressing in your chart? and through what sign? This agenda is what is ruling your vocation. She should have an easy time managing Saturn if not Pluto, as Saturn is exalted in Libra, so that is very much in your favor. Saturn likes being at the zenith of the chart – above the horizon, so that is working as well. If you have a night chart, (Sun below the horizon) Saturn here could indicate always changing the goal – setting an unrealistic one as well. Set a small goal, achieve that and then move on is the advice astrologer Robert Hand gives for this situation. As Pluto is a modern planet it is often interpreted on the psychological level. It can be ruthless, deep, churning. By now (Feb 2017) you are experiencing a Jupiter transit in this house. I hope that has been of benefit to you.
I know someone with Saturn in Scorpio and Pluto in Libra conjunct Midhaven, opposed their 29 degree Aries Moon conjunct IC. Sun at the end of 8th house square Neptune in 12th! Capricorn ascendant.
This guy is off the rails! He constantly gets in legal trouble for making threats when he gets upset with work. Either he doesn’t get the job he wants or he doesn’t appreciate the job he gets and he attacks with horrible threats. He is just plain miserable and I am concerned he sounds suicidal lately. I am extremely concerned he may consider making good on his threats and hurting someone else, but he is not a physically imposing person so hopefully not.
He follows astrology and I correspond with him online but only occasionally because it is so difficult to see the emotional pain and toll his fears manifested into rage constantly posted. The blindness within himself is puzzling. He is quite intelligent and well educated but his ego is overwhelming.
A particularly odious example of Saturn-Pluto in Leo is Patriarch Kirill of Russia. His astrology speaks volumes.
From Wikipedia, about Pussy Riot: “Patriarch Kirill spoke of ‘his heart breaking with bitterness’ when he heard that some Orthodox Christians sought mercy and forgiveness for the women.” Well-exercised heart you have there, Vlad.
I just discovered the chart for Takoma Park, Maryland has Saturn Conjunct Pluto in Gemini opposite Sun/Venus in Sag. Chiron is also conjunct Pluto in this chart. I’ve been trying to unpack this chart today and found your great explanation of Saturn/Pluto here. I guess Takoma Park “took a position” about Pluto when they declared the place to be a “nuclear-free zone” which I always thought was a farce. With the added element of Chiron to the Saturn/Pluto, it might soften the judgmental nature of Saturn/Pluto. On the other hand, it might worsen it too.
I continue to return to this post, Jem, and what has brought me back to add to the board is my recent focus on contemplating the nature of the Pisces Sun and Virgo Pluto in my nativity, as a lived experience. I’ve switched to the Porphyry house system – adopting Jeff Green’s take on Pluto and the Lunar Nodes – and this seems to build nicely onto, and deepens the chart contemplation you provided me back in 2014.
That opposition (leaving the Uranus-to-Mercury/Chiron conjunction out of the mix for now) has been a ‘hard gig’, as I know from hard, Saturnian experience the consequences of that extreme see-sawing between a vigorous need for my cosmological worldview (9th house) to be validated and respected to the point of what I can only describe as ‘crusading’ tendencies, and the open, gentle, forgiving, surrendering my opinion as there is no one ‘truth, perspective of living the essence of that Pisces Sun.
I’ve spent a lot of time gazing at this placement, after isolating just those two points on Solar Fire. It’s making me a better therapist (and human being!), as I’m coming to greater and greater awareness of the projected shadow material ‘out there’ that I’ve unconsciously disowned onto unsuspecting individuals, because I was insufficiently self-aware doing so.
I’ll keep you posted on developments, dear man, as I’m in Sicily at a Psychosynthesis conference…happier, contended days.
I have Pluto conjunct Saturn in my first house. Pluto conjunct my rising. What do you think Jeremy? I’d like it to go take a hike. It’s really a pain in the ass.
Great description, thank you!
I find that Virgo Pluto conjunct South Node in the 9th House is expressing itself in a similar way – non-stop judgment with a firm belief that it’s just “common sense”. I suppose Virgo tendency to criticize takes the place of Saturn in this combination.
Speaking of the 1982 gen, I know three of them personally and this fits to a tee. I’m happy to understand why they’re so extremist in their expressions.
Thank you.
Hi, thank you for touching on Saturn-Pluto.
I still do not understand how this conjunction will play out in my life. I have it conjunction MC in libra. Yes, I’m clueless, I want to know how I will be tortured, or how I will be seen in the public eye… Can u help
Thank you, that was a very interesting article! Although I don’t practise it much these days, I’m an astrologer (have Uranus + Pluto bracketing my Virgo Desc. :))
I’ve long been interested in the Saturn-Pluto aspect, and tried to get into the heads of those who have it, to know what it feels like, as I found it hard to fathom.
It’s been in my face all my life; my mother had a Saturn-Pluto square, my elder sister had the 1947 Leo conjunction, and my daughter was born in 1983 with the close conjunction in Libra! They have tremendous discipline, authority, and a kind of power that’s almost supernatural; but all three at times displayed a breathtaking lack of compassion. It’s as if the thing most of us have, that makes us say, “Aw, I just couldn’t do that to him”, just isn’t there in them.
I’ve read, and am inclined to believe, that the three outer planets represent higher faculties. Uranus = Universal Mind; our ability to think about other people’s problems as if they were our own. Neptune, Universal Love: our empathy, so that we feel the other’s pain; and Pluto, Universal Will, our ability to act for someone else, not for ourselves.
In practice, all work together, don’t they? We notice the hungry person, we feel his suffering, we do something, feed him.
Saturn tends to take away what it touches, thus Moon/Saturn can be unemotional, with Mars/Saturn the will and initiative are lamed, and so on.
Well, I suspect that when it’s closely aspecting an outer planet, we have a cog missing in the wheels of ‘Think, feel, act.’
People with Saturn conjunct Uranus, I’ve observed that they don’t notice when others have a problem; they just don’t think much about other people’s lives. With Saturn conjunct Neptune, they may notice, but it’s as if they can’t imagine how the other feels, they can’t put themselves in that person’s shoes. And I would guess that with Saturn/Pluto, they will notice, they will have sympathy, but they won’t *do* anything to help.
That’s as far as I’ve got with understanding it now, anyway. 🙂
It was good to read someone else’s perspective, and that it’s not just me who finds it a bit of a ‘tricky’ energy! 🙂
I think it is very important to not over read or over simply any relationship between to planets or any one planet’s signature as astrology i a symbolic language and these symbols play out in a multi dimensional and multi layered way. To give a brief example – the Moon Saturn contact you defined as unfeeling is not at all what is often going on. This could say much more about the native’s mother and her anxiety/depression and consequently, the unconscious absorbing of that. It also speaks to repression of feeling or being cut-off, shut down, and of stoicism – and inner emotional strength as a consequence. It speaks of lack of comforting, of feeling alone. Moon Saturn if a superior conjunction is pushing on Saturn and finds a block. I think this shows possible depression as well. And the list goes on …..This combined with the rest of the chart is just that – only one element. It could be in a fire sign or contacted very expressive planets and therefore, emotions are expressed – perhaps a lot of crying or anger etc.
I’m really enjoying your posts… it seems at this moment in time we are in the same place/looking as astrology through the same lens (I’m the one that wrote an Ecyclapedia on your Solar Arc post)… My music career dramatically/traumatically ended in 2002 (explained most of it Solar Arc post) from a doctor carelessly cutting through a handful of major nerves in my face (I was a professional French Hornist and educator and knew by the time I was 10 this was exactly what I was suppose to do and I started putting my plan into action). (when this happened- the surgery Tr Pluto was in my 6th house conj my Neptune (ruler of my MC) and conj my Sun (triggering my Yod with Pluto, Uranus, Neptune, Sun, and Moon- apex in Taurus)… and Tr Saturn was in my 12th house forming a grand cross to my chart- squaring my MC in Pisces, squ my Saturn in the 4th- 8th house ruler, and opposite my chart and IC ruler in Sag/6th house… SA Saturn was ripping my chart apart plus some other crap.
I’m 39 now and I’m still lost… I have earned degrees in Architecture, Photography, Graphic Design, and a engineering certification… I’m doing nothing with those degrees… going in and out of depression and isolation (prog Sun traveling through the 8th… needing something deeper) b/c I only knew myself as a musician… not as, “Becca, the person… a person with a soul, needs, wants, complex emotions… NOT a performer.” Astrology is the closest I have gotten to being fulfilled (and that was waxing and wanning for the past 10 years until this year discovering Evolutionary Astrology… b/c it woke me up to that I have been performing to everyone, even myself- which allowed me to keep slowly losing myself until I was hit in the face with the EV Astro, saying to myself… wtf the have you been doing to yourself? You have so much to give to yourself, to others, and so much of yourself to explore! Anyway, this also allowed me, after 15 years of not playing, to pick up a French Horn again and saying… “who gives a sh*t about missing notes, not always being perfectly in tune, a small playing range and just having days my face is just too numb to even make a sound… f*cking do it for yourself, do it to help you heal… do it b/c you LOVE it… and stop caring about all the rest! (my life stop being “normal” after that surgery… haven’t gotten married, no kids, no steady career that filled me up, only owning my car, and being pretty much a free spirit all over the US)… Normal = functioning at this lower level of conscious that basically made me a sheep/doing what people/society excepted… which that’s when I saw the ending of my music career being a blessing…
But, these levels of consciousness you are talking about… I finally found a Soul Level/Phase diagram that helped me understand the “lower” levels (god, I hate using that) and how sometimes it can seem like we are at one level for a period of our life but be at a completely different level of this consciousness at other times… I learned it from the Evolutionary Astrology that Jeff Green teaches… and it explaining there are 3 phases of evolutionary/consciousness, and each phase has 3 stages…
3 Main Phases:
1). Conscensus, which is like 70-75% percent of the population.
2). Individualization, which is about 20%, and
3). Spiritual Phase, which is about 5-10% of the population…
…and with the Evolution Astrology it allows me to connect to why sometimes I’m functioning from an Individualization Phase, and sometimes a Spiritual Phase. Anyway, I thought I would share this b/c since I have been 3-4 years old I knew and felt things (especially about past lives, trauma, how people interact, why I felt and saw the world the way I did and I even had an understanding why certain situations had to happen for growth (which is way too much for a 3-5 yr old lol)…. when I discovered Evolutionary Astrology it’s been the only thing that has been able to put into words exactly what I have felt/saw about the world/me being 3-4 years old.
I will definitely be back to your site! Thanks for inspiring me again to share/interact at this level… I haven’t done that in years!